Enclosure 9.
714
HIS EXCELLENCY--Well, gentlemen, this document which is now laid on the table will be duly forwarded to the Secretary of State. I feel sure the Government will at all times be very happy to submit to the Secretary of State any opinions that the unofficial members of this Council desire to convey to him. I am glad myself the course which has been taken in regard to this document has been adopted rather than that it should be referred to the Finance Committee to be dealt with as an addendum to their report. Had it been sent there I fear that it would have given rise to delay, and for my part I am very desirous we should finish off such work as is before us to-day, and not leave such a matter as this particularly for the Governor to deal with on his return. I think, however, that it is incumbent on me to make just a few observations in regard to the document that has been read. It is one that refers to an all-important subject, and I myself have had occasion more than once to state both in writing and in speaking the importance that all members of this Council, whether they be official or unofficial members, should attach to the finances of this colony.
It appears from what has been read that the unofficial members are not altogether satisfied with the system that has hitherto been pursued in laying the financial statements before them when they are asked to vote public moneys. It has been hinted at in that document that in former years a different course from that which has been followed was perhaps not so necessary, inasmuch as the cost of carrying on public works in this colony was not then so great as it is at the present time, but that when the Government proposes, as they have undoubtedly done this year, that a very large sum should be spent on public works, it would be well if further details were given and the matter submitted in a somewhat different way from that in which it has been submitted.
Since I have presided over this Board I have done my best to inform members of all particulars, in so far as I could, connected with matters of expenditure. Very soon after I assumed my present sitting position I caused a memorandum to be sent round to all unofficial members informing them if it was proposed a vote should be submitted for the consideration of the Finance Committee, and I took that step because I thought before members were asked to vote money they ought to know the amount they are asked to vote and also the purpose for which they are asked to vote it.
When the estimates for this year were first brought forward they were brought forward, to a certain extent at all events, in the same way as they have been brought forward in former years, but I did this year what I believe has not been altogether customary in former years—I speak under correction on this point, but I believe in laying on the table such a minute as I did when laying the estimates before the Council I did more to inform members than has been done heretofore. The estimates were submitted in due course for the consideration of the Finance Committee.
It appears that shortly after the unofficial members began to discuss the estimates in Finance Committee, they were not altogether satisfied with the manner in which the discussion in the Finance Committee was conducted, or thought they had not a sufficient or ample opportunity of stating their views on the various matters connected with the estimates, and they therefore brought forward a proposal that the estimates should be considered in the same way as the estimates are considered in the Straits Settlements. I was most desirous to meet the views of the unofficial members in every respect, as regards that, and when they proposed that a Select Committee should be formed, following the example of the Singapore system consisting of a certain number of official members and all the unofficial members, I at once stated I had no objection, but I warned the Council that in following the system had recourse to in the Straits Settlements there might be a danger of discussing matters in private which in Finance Committee would be discussed in public.
It was afterwards stated that I had declined to allow this committee to sit with open doors. I must say I do not remember any request, any formal request at all events, being made to me to allow the committee to sit with open doors. It is true I had expressed myself somewhat strongly to the effect that if the Singapore system were followed the committee would not sit with open doors, and I honestly confess that had any such request been made to me I would not have acceded to it; but I refer to this point in order to inform members that no formal request was made to me.
Subsequently an application was made to me by the hon. member on my right at the bottom of the table (Hon. T. H. Whitehead) that this Special Committee might sit with open doors, but I stated that I did not feel justified in allowing that and suggested that the remainder of the estimates might be considered in Finance Committee, which was done.
As to allowing special committees to sit with open doors, two objections suggest themselves. One is that it would be contrary to the practice in connection with special committees elsewhere, for I am not aware that in any place special committees sit with open doors during their deliberations, although they may do so to take the evidence of witnesses. Another reason that caused me to refuse to accede to this request was that bearing in mind the position I hold I did not think I would be justified in making such an important precedent for future Governors to follow. I have to bear in mind that I am not the Governor, I am merely acting for someone else, and therefore I had to be careful in making precedents which perhaps one who may be here properly to-day, might not be willing to follow. That was one reason that influenced me in not acceding to the request.
The remainder of the estimates were then considered in Finance Committee, and I am glad to see every consideration has been given to them, as is shown by the memorandum that has been laid on the table to-day. Now with regard to the information the hon. members have referred to, I can only repeat what I have said before, that so far as I am concerned, I should be only too anxious to supply the unofficial members with any information in my power.
It may be difficult in some cases to give what is referred to as detailed information, but all the information the Government have in their power in regard to public works they ought to give. I was certainly under the impression the documents which have been laid on the Council table and drawn up by the Surveyor-General afforded a great deal of information. There are no less than three reports by the Surveyor-General, one dated the 17th June, which was forwarded in my despatch to the Secretary of State dated the 28th August; another memorandum drawn up by him in connection with the estimates for this year, dated 14th August; and another memorandum also laid on the table dated the 10th July. I was certainly under the impression these three memorandums did convey substantially all the information the unofficial members desired.
However, it appears I was labouring under a somewhat erroneous impression, and I regret the unofficial members have not had laid before them all the information they thought they ought to have had. Now I must refer to one or two points connected with public works. One is the procedure that has been adopted in regard to the drainage and water-works. A month or two before Mr. Chadwick's departure from the colony he drew my attention to what I could not help considering a very unsatisfactory feature of the expenditure connected with these important matters.
He informed me, if I remember rightly, that this Council had voted a lump sum for the carrying out of these works, and he drew my attention to the fact that the salaries of officers attached to these works were paid out of this vote, and that it was very difficult to say how much of that sum would go towards the actual carrying out of the works and how much towards the payment of salaries, and he thought that a very unsatisfactory arrangement. I immediately requested Mr. Chadwick to draw up a memorandum showing what proportion was for works and what for salaries. He did that, and his memorandum was laid before the Council, and the Council was asked to adopt the suggestions he made. I think I myself made some observations on the occasion on which these were laid before the Council. The Council then agreed to the scheme, and since then there has been a division in the amount voted for these works, so that the works are paid for out of a certain portion and the salaries out of the other.
If any suggestions had been made to me at the time that this scheme should be further worked up in such ...
strongly
Enclosure 9.
714
BIS EXCELLENCY--Well, gestlemen, this doenment which is now laid on the table will be daly forwarded to the Secretary of State. I feel sure the Government will at all times be very bappy to submit to the Secretary of State any opinions that the unofficial members of this Council desire to convey to him. I am glad myself the course which has been taken in re- gard to this document has been adopted rather than that it should be referred to the Finance Committee to be dealt with us an addendum to their report. Had it been sent there I fear that it would have given rise to delay, and for my part I am very desirous we should finish off such work as is before us to-day, and not leave such a matter as this particularly for the Gover- nor to deal with on his return. I think, how- ever, that it is incumbent on me to make just a few observations in regard to the document that has been read. It is one that refers to an all-important subject, and I myself bave bad occasion more than once to state both in writing and in speaking the importance that all members of this Conncil, whether they be official or unofficial members, should attach to the Huanges of this colony. It appears from what has been read that the unofficial members are not altogether satisfied with the system that has beou hitherto pursued in laying the financial į statements before them when they are asked to vote public moneys. It has beeu biuted at in that document that in former years a different course from that which has been followed was perhaps not so necessary, inasmuch as the cost of carrying on public works in this colony was not then so great as it is at the present time, but that when the Governmont proposes, as they have un- doubtedly done this year, that a very large sum should be spent on public works, it would be well if further details were given and the matter submitted in a somewhat different way from that in which it has been submitted. Since I have presided over this Board I have done my best to inform members of all particulars, in so far as I could, connected with matters of es- penditure. Very soon after I assumed my pre Lent sating position I caused a memorandum to be sent round to all unoffit:ial members inform- ing them if it was proposed a vote shoull be submitted for the consideration of the Financs Committee, and 1 took that step bus. I thought before members were asked to vote money they ought to know the awonat they are asked to vote and also the purpose for which they are asked to vote it. When the e timates for this year were first brought forward they were brought forward, to a certain extent at all events, in the same way as they have been brought forward in former years, but I did this year what I believe has not beer altogether oustomary in former years I speak under correction on this point, but I believe in laying on the table such a minute as I did when laying the estimates be fore the Council I did mors to inform members than has been done heretofore.. The stimates were submitted in due douése for the cousidarı ation of the Finance Committee. It appears. that shortly after the noofficial members Tegan to discuss the estimates in Finance Committee, they were not altogether satisfied with the manner in which the discussion in the Finance Committee was conducted, or thought they bad not a sufficient ad ample opportunity of stating their views on the various matters connected with the estimates, and they therefore br nght forward a proposal that the estimates should be considered in the same way 86 the es: timates are considered in the Straits Set tlements. I was most desirons to meet the views of the unofficial members in every respect, as regards that, and when they proud that a Select Committee should be formed, following the example of the Singapore system gausisting of a certain uumber of official mu nbers and all the unofficial members, I at onen stated I had no objection, but I warned the Consell that in fol- lowing the system had recoarse to in the Straita Settlements there might be a danger of discussing matters in private which in Finance Committee would be discussed in public. It was afterwards stated that I had declined to allow this committee to sit with open doors. I must say do not remember any request, any formal request at all evouts, being male to me to allow the committee to sit with open doors It is tras I had expressed myself somewhat
strongly
strongly to the effect that if the Singapore system were followed the committee wonid" not sit with open doors, and I honestly confers that had any stich request been made to we i would oot have acceed to it; but I refer to this point in order to inform members that no fortal roquest was made to me. Subsequently un ap- plication was made to me by the hou. member on toy right at the bottom of the table (Hon. T. H. Whitehed) that this Special Committee might sit with open doors, but I stated that I did not feel justified in allowing that and suggested that the remainder of the estimates might be considered in Finance Committee, which was done. As to allowing special commitless to mit with open doors, two objections suggest them- selves. One is that it would be contrary to thě practice in connection with special committees elsewhere, for I am not aware that in any place special committees sit with open do rs during their deliberations, although they may do so to take the evilence of witnesses. Another reason that caused me to refuse to accede to this request was that bearing in mind the position I hold I did not think I would be justified in making sach an important precedent for future Governors to follow. I have to bear in mind that I am not the Governor, Lam merely acting for someone else, and therefore I had to be careful in making pre- codents which perhaps one who may be here pboper to-day, might not be willing to follow. That was one reason that induene-d me in not acceding to the request. The remain- der of the estimates were then considered in Finance Committee, and I am glad to see every consideration has been given to them, as is show is by the memorandon that has been laid on the table to-day. Now with regard to the informa- tion the bon members have referred to.
I cau only repeat what I bave said before, that so far as I am concerned, I should be only too auxious to supply the anofficial members with any in formation in my power. It may be difficult in some cases to give what is referred to as detailed information, but all the information the Govern- mont have in their power in regard to publio works they ought to give. I was certainly under the impression the documents which have been laid on the Council table and drawn up by the Surveyor-General afforded a great deal of information. There are no less than thres re- ports by the Surveyor-General, one dated the 17th June, which was forwarded in my despatch to the Secretary of State dated the 28th Angust; another memorandum drawn up by him in con- nection with the estimates for this year, dated 14th August; and another memorandum also laid on the table dated the 10th July, I was certainly under the impressiou these thres memorandums did convey substantially all the information the unofficial members desired. How- ever, it appears I was labouring under a somewhat erroneous impression, and I regret the unofficial members have not had laid before them all the information they thought they ought to have bad. Now I must refer to one or two poiuts (connected with public works. Une is the pro- oedure that has been adopted in regard to the drainage and water-works. A month or two before Mr. Chadwick's departure from the colony he drew my attention to what I could not help considering a very unsatisfactory feature of the expenditure conusoted with these important- matters. He informed me, if I remember rightly. that this Council had voted a lump sum for the carrying out of these works, and be drew my uttention to the fact that the salaries of officers attached to these works were paid out of this vote, and that it was very difficult to say how much of that sum would go towards the actualcarrying out of the works and how much towards the payment of salaries, and he thought that a very uusatisfzo- tory arrangement. I immediately requested Mr. Chadwick to draw up a memorandum showing what proportion was for works and what for salaries. He did that, and his memorandum was laid before the council, and the Council was asked to adopt the suggestions be made. I think I myself made some observations on the occasion on which these were laid before the Council. The Council then agreed to the scheme, and since then there has been a division in the amount voted for these works, so that the works are paid for out of a certain portion and the salaries out of the other. If any suggestions had been made to me at the time that this sobeme should be further worked up in such
fright
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.